Saturday evening, we attended the Liturgy at the local Melkite Catholic Church. I’ve shared my observations about Eastern Catholic liturgies before, and have really nothing to add except:
1) Please go. If you’re a Latin Rite Catholic and have never experienced worship in one of these other Catholic churches, go. It will open your eyes to what worship is, and help you grasp what people are saying, even in the Latin context of “singing the Mass” instead of “singing at Mass,” for almost every bit of the liturgy is chanted by presbyter, deacon and people, mostly facing in the same direction. It puts staring at each other and mumbling back and forth in a whole new light.
2) The Divine Liturgy is not directly comparable to the Roman Rite (either old or new) in many respects, but one of the points it might jostle about in the Westerner’s brain is that of the respective roles of clergy and people. One cannot accuse the Divine Liturgy of not being conducive to lay participation. (ritual caveat – yes, I know “participation” does not mean “vocal.”) It demands it, and it is constant. There is, to put it bluntly, never a dull moment. But at the same time, behind the iconostasis, there is a great deal going on. As we are chanting our litanies, the presbyter is praying, and at various points, he emerges with an invitation to us, and we pray something else, and then he returns to his work. I compare this to some of the Masses I attend in which, in the name of participation, I have to sit for at least five minutes after Communion is finished, in silence, watching the priest cleanse the vessels. Because “participation” apparently keepin my eyes glued on every act that the priest performs. Well, yes I’m supposed to be praying, but I’m going to admit to you, it’s difficult, when all is silent and there’s the priest, right up front and center, taking care of things.
3) That said, there is a casualness to the Eastern liturgy that is both refreshing and unnerving. The church is practically empty at the begining, but gradually fills up, until most people have shown up by the Gospel or so. Because there is this (what I call) freight train aspect to the liturgy – you get on and it just goes - it’s hard for a Westerner, accustomed to associating “prayerful” with silence and kneeling, to re-associate it with chanting and standing. But good.
(But I will say, too – that the other interesting thing here is that if you are tired of standing and you want to sit, it’s fine. There were times when about half the people were standing and the other sitting. It reminded me a bit of going to Mass in Italy. There is a sense that we are all here together, celebrating the feast, encountering the Lord, but we are still who we are,and that is fine.)
4) Very often, in apologetics discussions, you will read Protestants hostile to Catholic teaching on Mary hold up the Orthodox/Eastern view as preferable and something they’re more comfortable with. I have never understood this, and can only conclude that those who say such things have never actually experienced Eastern Christian spirituality. Certainly, there are points which are not dogmatized – points which would be the center of the Orthodox argument against the Catholic approach - but honestly now.
(edited to remove three uses of variations on the word “certain” in a single sentence.)
Often you get the impression that some people think that Marian devotion was invented by ignorant medieval peasants so distant from God and the Gospel that they turned to the primeval Mother Figure instead and just started mumbling random prayers to her out of the blue.
Well, no. Of course, Marian devotion began in the East mostly because, well, CHRISTIANITY began in the East. I’m not going to do some big historical survey here, but I’ll just say that any Protestant thinking that the Easterners will make them more comfortable in terms of Mary than the Romans, might want to take a look at this portion of the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, which is chanted directly after what we in the West would call the consecration:
PRIEST: Again, we offer You this spiritual worship for those resting in the faith, the forefathers, fathers, patriarchs, prophets, apostles, preachers, evangelists, martyrs, confessors, ascetics, and for every holy soul who has run the course of life in faith. Especially, for our all-holy,. spotless, most highly blessed and glorious Lady the Mother of God and everlasting virgin Mary.
PEOPLE: It is truly meet to bless you O Theotokos who are ever blessed and all blameless and the Mother of our God. More honored than the Cherubim and more glorious beyond compare than the Seraphim you who without stain did bear God the Word, you are truly Theotokos we magnify you.
In addition, the prayer, “Through the prayers of the Mother of God, O Savior, save us.” is a component on one of the repeated antiphons.
If anything, honoring and asking for Mary’s intercession is even more deeply integrated into normal Eastern liturgical life than it is in the West, because it is a part of the Sunday liturgy in a way that it is not in the West.
5) Do not promise your 4-year old that he will get bread at the end of the Liturgy unless you are very, very sure, they are not going to run out before you get up there.
(Photo above is from the end of the Liturgy. You go up to the front, kiss a cross held for you, then take a piece of what is called “antidoron” – bread that had been prepared for consecration but was not used.)
“Very often, in apologetics discussions, you will read Protestants hostile to Catholic teaching on Mary hold up the Orthodox/Eastern view as preferable and something they’re more comfortable with. I have never understood this, and can only conclude that those who say such things have never actually experienced Eastern Christian spirituality.”
This may be because certain evangelicals-turned-Orthodox downplay Marian stuff to other evangelicals.
In Miles Jesu the Divine Liturgy is celebrated…
I went to Divine Liturgy at St. Athanasius Byzantine Catholic Church in Indianapolis once. It was beautiful in a small way — as opposed to a Tridentine High Mass, which I find to be beautiful in a big way. A wonderful experience.
Thanks for the inspiration. I think in upcoming weeks I am going to try to make a visit to my local Syro-Malabar church in Bellwood (IL). I anticipate some difficulty, however, in convincing my wife that we need to do anything other than walk a block to our local parish
Question 15 in the FAQ you linked to is also interesting in the Protestant Western/Eastern Mary discussion.
Attending a Byzantine Catholic liturgy with a friend was one of the best things I did while studying theology in grad school. As a convert to Roman Catholicism, I was familiar with being in a church and having no idea what’s going on, so that didn’t really bother me. That’s kind of the point, too. Abandoning oneself to Mystery requires the humility to not be in control of things.
In defense of the cleaning of the sacred vessels…I find reflecting on the reverence with which the priest approaches this has a great deal to offer us. Though maybe that’s just me.
“Very often, in apologetics discussions, you will read Protestants hostile to Catholic teaching on Mary hold up the Orthodox/Eastern view as preferable and something they’re more comfortable with.”
I think it’s because of the two major Marian dogmas, the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption, which the Eastern churches have not made dogma as the West has – Protestants, I think, tend to imagine this means that a range of belief regarding the Blessed Virgin and her position is therefore tolerated, whereas the Orthodox beef was more on the notion of Original Sin and the authority of the Pope. Certainly, if they’re hoping for a lower valuation of Mary’s place, they’re looking in the wrong direction.
“You go up to the front, kiss a cross held for you, then take a piece of what is called “antidoron” – bread that had been prepared for consecration but was not used.”
I don’t know if you’ve read Eamonn Duffy’s “The Stripping of the Altars”, but amongst other things it sheds a fascinating light on pre-Reformation practice in England, and the custom of the ‘holy loaf’ was one of these:
“At the end of the parish Mass an even more obvious substitute for lay communion was provided. A loaf of bread presented by one of the householders of the parish was solemnly blessed, cut up in a skip or basket, and distributed to the congregation. The offering of this loaf, which was regulated by a rota, was attended with considerable solemnity, the provider processing to the high altar before matins, reciting a special prayer, and offering a candle to the priest at the same time. It was usual for the curate to pray explicitly for “the good man or woman that this day geveth bread to make the holy lofe” when he bid the bedes. This holy loaf was meant to be the first food one tasted on a Sunday; eaten or simply carried in one’s pocket, it was believed to have apotropaic powers. If one died without a priest, reception of holy bread was accounted a sufficient substitute for housel.”
It strikes me that there were so many customs still shared by West and East that we don’t know about, simply because of the seismic shock of the Reformation which changed Catholic, as well as Protestant, practice.
I really do recommend Duffy’s book to everyone; there are some amusing/wince-inducing parts (such as the quarrels between parishioners over precedence in church or who got to kiss the pax first – one guy kissed the pax, then smashed it over the head of the clerk “causing streams of blood to run to the ground” because the clerk gave it to another parishioner to kiss first – all this at Mass!) but also a great selection of information about the customs and practices of the laity before the Reformation.
I think the Eastern and Western Churches both pay a lot of attention to Mary, but in very different ways. From what I have seen of Divine Liturgy, the Eastern Church stresses the Mother of God more during the Liturgy and less during private devotions, whereas the Western Church stresses her more in private devotions (such as the Rosary) but mentions her less during the Liturgy of the Mass. If someone only looks at one aspect of public versus private worship, they may get a skewed view.
“I don’t know if you’ve read Eamonn Duffy’s “The Stripping of the Altars”, but amongst other things it sheds a fascinating light on pre-Reformation practice in England, and the custom of the ‘holy loaf’ was one of these:
“At the end of the parish Mass an even more obvious substitute for lay communion was provided. A loaf of bread presented by one of the householders of the parish was solemnly blessed, cut up in a skip or basket, and distributed to the congregation.”
This tradition persists, of course, in the Anglican Communion, where it is now known as “Coffee Hour.”
Verrry loosely, but i was under the impression that part of the impetus for the promotion of the dogma of the Immaculate Conception was to help the Roman church catch up with the Orthodox and their devotion to the Theotokos. Truly, any fellow Protestant who says they want to defer to the East in their qualms on Marian devotion has a layer of filo pulled over their eyes.
ps — i found Albertus’ comment very enlightening: one of those “so obvious i’d missed it” kind of points.
I second Amy’s recommendation. We had a Melkite chaplain in the Air Force. He introduced all of us Latin Catholics to the other half of our Church. He also baptized my wife and children into the Catholic Church using Roman rites. Father Larry is now retired in PA.
BTW, when evangelical Christians call for me to “come out” of the Roman Catholic Church, I tell them; “Fine. I am now a Melkite Catholic.” Usually leaves them speechless as teir polemics are for Rome only. Never occurs that there are other Catholic Churches.
If I couldn’t be a Latin Rite Catholic, I’d be a Melkite Catholic.
I am an Orthodox Christian with a Catholic background, so I enjoyed this post. I agree in many ways with the comment that mentioned dogmatics vs veneration, but I do think that the mediatrix concept is Roman Catholic and not Orthodox.
But, I should quibble that the middle of the loaf is used for Communion (the part with the seal, or “lamb”) and the outer parts are antidoron. I’m sorry your four year old didn’t get any.
Regarding Protestant interest in Orthodoxy vs. Catholicism, I’d bet that the issue involved is less the Marian Doctrines/Dogmas, but the issue of Authority/Papal Primacy/Infallibility. Especially with the Anglicans, when they come to the conclusion that they might not actually have valid orders, they run to the East, so that they don’t actually have to submit to Rome.
In the [Orthodox] Divine Liturgies I have attended, when the Theotokos is invoked the congregation sings “O holy Theotokos save us”. This happens maybe three or four times during the liturgy, if I remember correctly (I haven’t been to one in a while).
The phrase tends to be sung quietly and not by everyone – perhaps some of the converts are not quite comfortable with it? But it’s definitely audible. As a Protestant at the time, it made me a little uncomfortable.
It might have been this. I don’t know what “this” is, exactly, but it contains that antiphon, repeated many times.
Fifty years ago I attended a wedding in the Eastern rite. The singing and the movement made a very strong impression on me. It is my hope that at least once before I die that I attend Mass in the Eastern Rite. There is much to be said for the celebrant and the people chanting the prayers. It is a more natural sharing of words and music, much superior to our usual 5 hymn struggle with so few sharing the singing.
There is so much happening so quickly in our faith, demographically and generationally that we have to struggle to see why things are as they are. As to the priest after communion spending long minutes purifying the vessels, you are looking at a worried male celibate doing his utmost to keep females out of the sanctuary. It is pathetic but it is what passes for liturgy and theology these days.
Tomorrow would be a very good day to go to a Byzantine Catholic Church, as it is one of the major feasts of the year, Theophany.
I went to the Vigil this evening.
Amy, I think your link to the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom is broken. I got a 404 page not found message.
Susan Peterson
Great post Amy!
A couple of things…
1. “I have to sit for at least five minutes after Communion is finished, in silence, watching the priest cleanse the vessels. Because “participation” apparently keepin my eyes glued on every act that the priest performs. Well, yes I’m supposed to be praying”
With all due respect, I’d argue “no you’re not”. That’s a point in the Mass where we’re all ostensibly kneeling. One shouldn’t be offering prayers while kneeling on a Sunday (Nicene Canon 20). That’s why we stand during the Mass – to offer prayers.
2. The Ukrainian version of “it is truly right…” is
It is truly right to bless you, O God-bearing One,
as the ever-blessed and immaculate Mother of our God.
More honourable than the cherubim
and by far more glorious than the seraphim;
ever a virgin,
you gave birth to God the Word,
O true Mother of God,
we magnify you.
We repeat several of these lines (or fragments thereof) as we sing them, and it’s quite cheerful! The Byzantines say “Theotokos”, but the Ukies say “God Bearing One” (in English). Interestingly, the music (tune) is different between the Byzantine and Ukrainian liturgies, even though the words are almost identical. Also, Byzantine priests and Ukie priests sub for each other when they are sick, go on vacation, etc. Pretty cool, I say…
“As to the priest after communion spending long minutes purifying the vessels, you are looking at a worried male celibate doing his utmost to keep females out of the sanctuary.”
As a female person of the opposite persuasion, that never occurred to me, Tom.
I always found it fascinating, as both domestic and reverent. A blending of Mary and Martha, you might say. The homely, almost household task of cleaning the dishes after the meal combined with the fear of the Lord so that not even the least little crumb of what is the Body of Christ or drop of the Precious Blood might be dropped or lost or spilt through carelessness; no scraps to be thrown out or washed down the drain, but all to be consumed in the living temple of the body.
Amy, thanks again for your excellent descriptions of your experience of the Divine Liturgy. If anyone would like to learn about Eastern Christianity there is an excellent source available here: http://www.cnewa.org/generalpg-verus.aspx?pageID=182
It’s “The Eastern Christian Churches–A Brief Survey” by Ronald Roberson, CSP (7th edition)
Navigate to the various chapters by clicking on table of contents on right side.
My maternal grandmother was Maronite, but there was no Maronite priest in Louisville, so her parents, who came from Lebanon, raised her and her sybllings in the Roman rite. Her husband (my grandfather) was of Irish heritage, and my own father immigrated from Ireland, so the liturgical tradition of the East was lost in my family. (Fortunately, the culinary traditions of Lebanon — rather than Ireland — were preseved at family gatherings!)
As an adult, I’ve enjoyed participating in the Maronite Divine Liturgy and in praying with some dear Orthodox friends at Divine Liturgies at Antiochean and OCA parishes.
I appreciate Amy’s comments on the Byzantine liturgy — it’s beauty, prayerfulness and (I would add) intimacy, given the relatively small size of most Orthodox and Eastern Catholic parishes. As such, it has the feeling of other-worldliness (heaven!) and same time the familiarity of one’s own living room (the casualness of people arriving late that Amy notes).
As for Evangelicals who express some sympathy for Orthodoxy (some even chosing to convert) while maintaining a rigid antipathy for Rome, I would suggest reading the essay by Rev. Ray Ryland “Evangelicals Who Journey East” linked below.
http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/1ORTHO.htm
When I am in my parents’ town when it’s time to go to Mass, I attend the Byzantine Catholic Church there. It is a lovely and holy service; my Dad converted from EO to marry my Catholic mom, so he likes to go, obviously.
A lot of the hints to Latin rite Catholics you give honestly could apply to going to the EF. The remark about participation including attentively watching the priest cleanse the vessels – you should do that too in the EF, including praying silently the prayers the priest is saying as he washes the communion vessels. The Eastern rite is quite different in many details, but the role of the parishoner and if you will, the ‘mindset’ you should be in during Mass is the same in the EF. Really it should be the same in the Novus Ordo… it is an indictment of the post VII era that the experience of the Eastern Rite should be so revelatory to Latin rite Catholics.
Tom Kelty: “It is my hope that at least once before I die that I attend Mass in the Eastern Rite. ” I hope when you do you put your pride and ignorance aside, because if you walk into the church with this attitude – “As to the priest after communion spending long minutes purifying the vessels, you are looking at a worried male celibate doing his utmost to keep females out of the sanctuary. It is pathetic but it is what passes for liturgy and theology these days” – you will gain nothing from it. Kyrie eleison.
Albertus M wrote: “I think the Eastern and Western Churches both pay a lot of attention to Mary, but in very different ways. From what I have seen of Divine Liturgy, the Eastern Church stresses the Mother of God more during the Liturgy and less during private devotions, whereas the Western Church stresses her more in private devotions…”
In the Byzantine-rite Churches there are virtually no “private devotions” as you would find in the West that would be the equivalent of the rosary, novenas, Sacred Heart devotions, etc. The personal prayers one would say would practically all be taken from the “public” prayers of the Church, and not just from Liturgy but from Matins, Vespers, the Hours, Molebens, etc. and these all contain a great amount of asking for Mary’s intercession, so, Albertus, I think this comparison does not fit.
Amy, your point is very well taken. When talking with Protestants there are SO many times when Catholics could say, “and we’re not the only ones who believe this; all the ancient Christian Churches do!” Veneration and intercession of the saints (especially the Mother of God), the perpetual virginity of Mary, the Real Presence, the sacraments, prayers for the dead, the place of images in worship, sacramentals, relics….and on, and on.
Unfortunately since most Roman rite Catholics know so little about Eastern Christians they do not understand that on point, after point, after point, it is not simply the Western Catholic Church which stands in stark contrast to Reformation deletions. In nearly every place Catholics are joined by their brothers and sisters in all of the ancient Eastern Churches (Catholic and non-Catholic) as well. I think it’s a powerful solidarity that is, sadly, often neglected.
Yes I so agree. If I’ve gone 3 or 4 weeks without the Eastern Liturgy I start to feel it…in my bones. I’ve been going (maybe 20 times a year) to a Byz Catholic church for almost ten years now though I was raised in the Roman rite.
Recently I was cc’d on an email exchange btwn Byzantines that included the line, in connection with improved personal behavior, “Liturgy is paying off for you.” Can you imagine that being said by an RC? I can’t. The Eastern liturgy just seems to have more power to form & change us than the current non-Latin Mass. To paraphrase the line from Flannery O’Connor, I always think we’d all be good if we went to a St. John Chrysostom liturgy every day!
I brought my Mom once and she said, “everyone should go once”. She never wanted to go back, since it was an hour 45 minutes and there was “singing for about 20 minutes before anything started!”. (It’s now about an hour 15 minutes and there’s no pre-liturgical singing.)
“The personal prayers one would say would practically all be taken from the “public” prayers of the Church, and not just from Liturgy but from Matins, Vespers, the Hours, Molebens, etc. and these all contain a great amount of asking for Mary’s intercession, so, Albertus, I think this comparison does not fit.”
But I think that’s Albertus’ point, they’re taken from the “public” prayers of the Church, rather than prayers that have come up from the hoi polloi, so to speak, as often seemed to have happened in the West. Of course in practice many of these private devotions like processions, May crownings, etc. were done publicly in parish settings. So I think in effect they often ended up serving a role similar to the official, public prayers of the Church for regular folk.
I’m glad Amy said something about the difficulty of praying while the priest cleans the vessels because I think sometimes the appeal of silence at mass can be a bit overrated, in my humble opinion.
It’s not the silence – which is fantastic. It’s the priest’s activity as the center of attention. In another parish we attend, they are fortunate enough to have a deacon. After Communion, he takes the vessels aside and purifies them while the priest unobtrusively takes a prie-dieu, turns it to face the Tabernacle, kneels, and prays for about 3 minutes or so. It’s pretty ideal, I think.
Re: Kneeling and prayers
First off, I think I’d want evidence that this disciplinary canon has not been abrogated or modified by later canon law. Dogma doesn’t change, though it deepens. Disciplinary and procedural canons change frequently.
Second, I’d want a definition of what they meant by “prayers”. Do they mean any prayers? Or just the official kind in church? Then I would suggest that you examine what “offering” prayers means. Sounds like it’s the priest doing it, not the rest of us….
Thirdly, I would say that your statement exemplifies a very odd sort of idea that seems to have been promulgated during the sixties by over-eager liturgists — the idea that all parishioners must be mindmelded, thinking and praying the exact same thoughts at all times, and unable to add any prayer of their own. This idea seems to have come about out of dislike for the old custom of people praying the Rosary during Mass, but then seems to have gone hogwild in some areas. (Thankfully, not in mine.)
We are not supposed to ever just sit there, or just kneel there, or just stand there. We are supposed to be praying at all times. Says so in St. Paul. The way you do it may differ; you can pray by receptively sitting and being still without explicit vocal or mental texts. But you can’t ever stop praying, and especially not during Mass!
Amy,
What you describe at the other parish sounds good. I’ve just occasionally gotten the impression that things seemed a little self-conscious during periods of silence at some masses I’ve been to. Maybe it was the priest’s activity that distracted but that’s probably a personal fault of mine.
This page: http://www.byzantines.net/realaudio/index.htm
has streaming video (in Real Video format) of a Divine Liturgy at a Byzantine Catholic Church. The video is a several years old and I understand the liturgy in the Ruthenian Church has had a few changes in recent years but I suppose your readers would enjoy a glimpse of what you describe.
I know that some people attended Eastern churches while the Tridentine Mass was not available in the US. Some of our Latin Massers these days actually grew up attending the Eastern Masses. Its certainly a great idea to go-more knowledge can only be a good thing!
Some people visit museums when out of town — I go to liturgies at Eastern Catholic and Orthodox churches.
Some good places to attend liturgy:
the Ukrainian National Shrine in DC, right across the street from the Catholic National Shrine and CUA;
St. Therese Byzantine or Epiphany Ukrainian, both in St. Pete, FL;
St. Jude Maronite or St. Nicholas in Orlando;
St. Gabriel in Las Vegas;
Transfiguration Melkite in McLean, VA;
the Ukrainian Catholic Cathedral in Philly;
the Byzantine Church of the Dormition in Ormond Beach, FL, a personal favorite: a jewel of an old style wooden Ruthenian church, in the woods west of I-95, with, of course, a pierogi kitchen.
St. Cyril & Methodius Byzantine in Ft. Pierce, FL: the prettiest small church I’ve ever been in: icons everywhere and good Eastern liturgy, from a tiny congregation.
Check ahead: not all Eastern Catholic churches have daily Mass or Satruday evening vigil Masses.
On the subject of cleaning/purifying the sacred vessels at the altar (the ecclesial term is the “ablutions”). . .
Though this is often not followed, the vessels are actually supposed to be purified at the altar before being removed from the sanctuary. If not done at the altar, the ablutions are to be done at least within the sanctuary before the vessels are taken out. The reason is to preserve proper respect and reverence for the Real Presence. Until the presence of Jesus in the Eucharistic elements has been removed (by the ablutions), the proper place for the vessels is on the altar of sacrifice (or at the very least, in the sanctuary). That’s where Jesus’ Body and Blood belong. After they no longer remain, then, the vessels can be removed to the sacristry.
Also, the only person who is supposed to perform the ablutions before the vessels are removed is someone ordained in orders (thus, a deacon or priest). Acolytes or servers can finish up with cleaning and putting away, but, the ablutions (specifically cleaning away remaining traces of the Body and Blood of Jesus) are specifically to be done by the ordained (similar to the proper identity of an ordinary minister of the Eucharist). The Church reemphasized all this within the last few years.
I agree, Amy, that it can seem odd watching the priest do this at the altar time and again. Note, that when the ordinary right is celebrated Ad Orientem, the ablutions, though on the main altar, are mostly hidden from view and much less conspicuous. The oddness of doing this in plain view becomes a non-issue. Another benefit for the priest and people facing God together!
To clarify: at the parish to which I referred in the other comment, the deacon indeed purifies the vessels within the sanctuary, just not on the altar. Actually, I think what happens is that the priest purifies his own vessels and the deacon does the rest at a side table, but still in the sanctuary.
There’s no question that Marian devotions began in the East. They really came into the Roman church when a Syrian Pope was elected about 700 AD. So anyone who thinks that the East will be more sympathetic to views opposed to such devotions is deluding himself.
Certainly Lutherans of Eastern affinities do not disguise the role of Marian devotions or the leading role of Mary in their theology. Those who eventually swim the Bosphorus have in most cases first shown their inclination in that direction precisely in their emphasis of Mary.
“The Divine Liturgy is not directly comparable to the Roman Rite (either old or new)”
This just doesn’t seem accurate to me. At least in the case of a traditional Roman Rite high mass. I have only seen eastern rite masses on video. But from what you have written about them in the this post and in previous ones it always seems to me that you could replace “divine liturgy” with “traditional high mass” and most your points would equally apply.
the one major element which led me to write that is vocal congregational participation which is not a necessary element of the old rite, and is even frowned upon by some. This is a huge difference.
I like watching the ablutions. I loved it as a kid. That was back in the day when there was once chalice and one ciborium to purify. The priest would purify the ciborium and then put the paten and all of the other things back on. I was fascinated by that.
I attended a Japanese Tea Ceremony once. Of course, it’s not my intention to diminish the Eucharist in any way by comparing it to the Tea Ceremony, but it kind of helps one understand the importance of every little aspect of a ritual.
In the Tea Ceremony it matters what the person is wearing. It matters what the vessels are made of. Making the tea and cleaning the vessels are part of the ritual, not just housekeeping.
I think if we want to make sure that the ablution is seen as important and that the purification of the vessel that holds the Blessed Sacrament is seen as completely necessary we must see the priest or deacon do it at the altar. Otherwise, it’s too easy to think of it as “housekeeping.”
Dear Amy,
Peace & all good in the Lord!
This is just a brief thanks for your recent post re. your attendance at a Divine Liturgy in a Melkite parish. During the course of my initial formation as a friar & a priest, I spent two years worshipping in a Melkite parish, in order to depeen my study of Eastern/Byzantine Christianity. The result (well, one result among many) was not only a richer appreciation, as well as deeper understanding, of the Christian East, but also a more genuine love of our Western/Roman Tradition. I hope & pray that this proves the same for you & your family, as well.
Epiphany blessings!
Bro. Russel, OFM
Yeah, Catholics should experience at least a few services of the Eastern Church.
But suffering through liturgical changes isn’t just Roman.
The Byzantine (Ruthenian) Cath Church has undergone many in the last 40 or 50 years: from using Old Slavonic as the “Latin” of the liturgy, to an english translation, to a new english translation complete w/ tweaking of the music about 2 years ago. The rubrics have changed, even from kneeling for the consecration and communion (a forced latinization) to gradually recovering the tradition of standing for both.
But they’re tough folks. Even last night in a Pennsylvania ice storm, some people still showed up for Theophany at 6:30PM.
And for those on the Julian Calendar, today is Christmas.
Christos Razdajetsje! Slavite Jeho!
Christ is Born! Glorify Him!
I have to sit for at least five minutes after Communion is finished, in silence, watching the priest cleanse the vessels. Because “participation” apparently keepin my eyes glued on every act that the priest performs. Well, yes I’m supposed to be praying, but I’m going to admit to you, it’s difficult, when all is silent and there’s the priest, right up front and center, taking care of things.
Trust me, I know how this feels, definitely. But I’ve found that taking my TLM missal with me, no matter what rite I am attending, helps. There are some GREAT prayers for “after-Communion” in there, and even just reading my favorites takes me longer to read than it takes the priest to wash up. Even at a Latin Mass. And that’s saying something.
So that’s just a suggestion… and if you don’t have a missal, you can get the same prayers off the internet and just have them printed out in your purse or whatever.
Chacun a son gout.
I love the Melkites. The Priest at the Melkite Church nearby usually makes it a point to tell the parishioners that they are supposed to be participating in the Liturgy, by singing their parts, etc.
I notice the FAQ sheet Amy links to says not to genuflect in a Melkite parish, but to make a “metany.” I’ve also seen it stated that Latin Rite Catholics, in an Eastern Rite or Orthodox church, should remember to cross themselves from right to left. Is it really expected that visitors–especially visitors to another Catholic rite–should make sure to make the gestures of the East, instead of their habitual forms of reverence?
I visited an Orthodox parish when a friend was being received, and loved the worship. But if I’d been trying to cross myself the reverse way, and do bows/prostrations instead of genuflecting, etc., I would have been far too self-conscious to pray; it just would have felt affected. Are Easterners really going to be miffed if you genuflect, etc.? Am I just the Ugly American, not changing my habits to fit my surroundings?
My (extremely limited) experience is that no one cares, and that people are sort of doing their own thing anyway.
I always come late to the discussions I am most interested in.
So here I am adding a comment as much in response to Amy’s response to “benedictus” on January 7th above, as to the original post.
I’m not equipped to say anything about the casual-ness and the complexity of the Eastern liturgy as described. And this is because I have never attended an Eastern liturgy.
And I must admit that I have never really been tempted to, in part because those who encourage attendance at it often seem to site the role of the congregation in the liturgy and the atmosphere of reverence as prime reasons to attend. (Also, what I have experienced of Eastern traditions have always seemed more ornate & repetitive than I am comfortable with.)
Not that I think that either reverence at or participation in the liturgy are things to be avoided; quite the reverse. I was blessed to grow up attending for all my life from birth well into adulthood, a chanted Latin OF Mass.
Thus, I have never felt deprived of reverence or ritual in the liturgy, and I can quite honestly say that without every being explicitly taught, I learned that one ought to sing the Mass.
I must say I was more than a little shocked, as a college student, at how little Catholics outside my own parish participated vocally at Mass (aside from unsingable, ugly Mass settings, which are an obstacle– I was shocked at how few people seemed to actually speak the responses at some parishes.)
It always saddens a bit to say it, because I love the Latin tradition and wish it were easier to find these elements in Latin liturgies, but if attendance at Eastern liturgies can help the Latin rite appreciate both, then I too would strongly encourage all Latin Catholics to attend. attending
Whine: why do we not have a Melkite parish here in Houston?
A few thoughts on the Ray Ryland link offered by John Breen.
I realize that Fr. Ray’s article is now over 12 years old. It was written at a time when I might have, conversely, bristled at least as vociferously at the notion of Catholicism as he does at Orthodoxy. In both communions, incomers from Protestantism, “young in the faith,” are often like reformed smokers: all-knowing, condescending and not a little obnoxious!
Ryland is right about one thing. As one who was raised in the Lutheran Church, I was taught (though it was far more implicit than explicit) a deep mistrust of things Catholic. I had Catholic friends and even extended family members who were Catholic; it was the Catholic “thing,” not the people, that I was indoctrinated against. I would object, however, to the Ryland’s not-so-subtle implication that it’s something that one can never get over or think and pray one’s self through. Catholics and Orthodox cannot deny the power of the faith, notably the Nicene faith IN the Church, in such a manner.
Let us remember, too, that for some of us who did explore Catholicism before making the Eastward lurch, there was a great deal of irreverent silliness in Catholic Church in the United States back in the 80’s. Neuhaus speaks of the “discontinuants on the left” in his book, “Catholic Matters.” Let’s be honest, that sector has been extremely vocal, often rather obscene and insulting to “fundamentalists,” and an affront to Evangelicals who, for all their shortcomings, believe in the virgin birth and the resurrection of Jesus. It was very often the behavior of these folks in the parishes that soured potential converts, at least in my sector of the Midwest.
I might suggest a little different way of looking at Evangelicals who decide to become Orthodox instead of Catholic. However Ryland may think, there is a ponderous history of mistrust, dismissive treatment, misguided popular perceptions and frank ignorance between Catholics and Protestants. Untrue stories, lurid tales continue to be told by each about the other. There is not such an unpleasant history standing between Protestants and Orthodox like there is between the Catholic Church and the Protestant communities of the West. Orthodoxy, in this regard, suggests a fresh start that happens to be 2,000 years old. And there is the more broad observation many have made, that it is the profound difference in important respects between Christianities, not that are Protestant and Catholic, but that are Eastern and Western, which has directed surprising numbers of people to the Orthodox Church.
To illustrate, I will risk paraphrasing Archbishop KALLISTOS, an Oxford don and an Orthodox prelate, that, strange as it may seem to an American Christian, to the Russian babushka a Seventh Day Adventist is merely an eccentric Roman Catholic. For her, the only difference that matters is Eastern and Western, each successive Protestant experiment being yet another shoot of quasi-ecclesial Kudzu. An overstatement, to be sure, but then only to those of us who, being American, reflexively think in terms which ignore other perceptions of the matter.
The dismissive side comes in Fr. Ryland’s assertion that “their minds were already made up” and thus Orthodoxy was a foregone conclusion. Having made that journey myself, I can assure him that it is not at all easy, and I have had discussions with a numerous folks, clergy and lay, who were part of the Evangelical Exodus to Antioch. Many of them, as well as myself, were at least astute enough to notice that it was more than just “better theology.” There was also the sobering thought of, at least symbolically, leaving the cultural heritage of Western Europe, with its Christmas pageants and it’s Bach and its “Amazing Grace.” OF COURSE, many of them I spoke to, as well as myself, made a very careful examination of both Orthodoxy AND Catholicism. Moreover, Ryland overlooks the indecisiveness on the part of the Orthodox Church in America in as well as the shoddy treatment Gilquist’s group received on their journey to visit the Ecumenical Patriarch. Gilquist did not neglect to report that part of the story.
That said,the Gilquist book was very intentionally aimed toward Evangelicals. It was also a book written about a journey that, for theological reasons I happen to agree with wholeheartedly, ended in the Orthodox Church. It was not a “why I did not become Catholic” book. It was clearly his intention to present to Evangelicals the possibility that perhaps they would find the Pearl of Great Price in the Holy, Orthodox, Catholic and Apostolic Church. Considered in light of everything JP2 said in Ut Unum Sint, what’s not to like?
Finally, and this get’s a little tricky, I think Ryland may be a little too rigid in his interpretation of this entire matter. For one thing, my understanding is that the official teaching of the Roman Catholic Church is that Orthodox Christians are welcomed to receive the Sacrament of Holy Communion in Catholic Churches (I’ve seen it clearly stated on the back inside page of missals used in the Fort Wayne diocese; this has not, to date been reciprocally offered by the Orthodox). Thus, it appears to me that to the mind of the Roman Catholic Church, the Orthodox are already “in Communion,” otherwise, Communion wouldn’t be offered. Would it?? (I welcome clarification from Catholics here).
As Catholics and Orthodox, we would both better serve the cause of truth by avoiding unnecessary and ill-directed polemics. Our Lord, we can be sure by reading John 17, is not happy with either of us on this matter, and we will get nowhere by insulting each other. In an email I hope I never lose track of, Richard John Neuhaus replied to my query of why he didn’t more fully consider the Orthodox Church when he eventually “swam the Tiber.” His response was that he did, in fact, consider it, but the fact that he was a Westerner was a deciding factor. “And besides, the book was about my journey to the Catholic Church, not my side trip to Orthodoxy.”