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	<title>Comments on: Do you remember Rule #27?</title>
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	<link>http://amywelborn.wordpress.com/2008/03/06/do-you-remember-rule-27/</link>
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		<title>By: Tom R</title>
		<link>http://amywelborn.wordpress.com/2008/03/06/do-you-remember-rule-27/#comment-4330</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 20:35:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amywelborn.wordpress.com/?p=662#comment-4330</guid>
		<description>Meant to type: &quot;publishing repeated denunciations of [the] European Union &lt;b&gt;as a Roman Catholic&lt;b&gt; conspiracy&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meant to type: &#8220;publishing repeated denunciations of [the] European Union <b>as a Roman Catholic</b><b> conspiracy&#8221;</b></p>
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		<title>By: Josh S</title>
		<link>http://amywelborn.wordpress.com/2008/03/06/do-you-remember-rule-27/#comment-4283</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 20:45:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amywelborn.wordpress.com/?p=662#comment-4283</guid>
		<description>Luther&#039;s problem with Hebrews was that he thought Hebrews 6:4-6 supported the Novatian doctrine of denying the possibility of repentance after baptism.  Thus he concluded that Hebrews could not have been the work of an apostle (many Catholic textual scholars both then and now question whether Hebrews is really of apostolic origin).  It has nothing to do with a dislike of using the word hypostasis in connection to faith.

The Roman Catholic Church condemns the Novatian doctrine as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Luther&#8217;s problem with Hebrews was that he thought Hebrews 6:4-6 supported the Novatian doctrine of denying the possibility of repentance after baptism.  Thus he concluded that Hebrews could not have been the work of an apostle (many Catholic textual scholars both then and now question whether Hebrews is really of apostolic origin).  It has nothing to do with a dislike of using the word hypostasis in connection to faith.</p>
<p>The Roman Catholic Church condemns the Novatian doctrine as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom R</title>
		<link>http://amywelborn.wordpress.com/2008/03/06/do-you-remember-rule-27/#comment-4259</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:28:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amywelborn.wordpress.com/?p=662#comment-4259</guid>
		<description>Hardly surprising that &quot;Luther... was not particularly fond of the Letter to the Hebrews&quot;. The whole message of that Epistle is: If people are deserting your new church and going back to the old religion that existed centuries before you broke away from it, that proves that (a) your new church is wrong and (b) you need human priests to keep offering repeated sacrifices for your sins.

Not a good omen for the so-called &quot;Reformation&quot;.

I like your Rule #27. The &lt;i&gt;Spectator&lt;/i&gt; (oddly, for a magazine that is largely written and edited by scions of recusant houses) went a bit funny a few years back, publishing repeated denunciations of [the] European Union conspiracy by one of those quasi-British-Israelist Tory Anglicans who can&#039;t seem to tell the difference between the Thirty-Nine Articles and &lt;i&gt;The Thirty-Nine Steps&lt;/i&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hardly surprising that &#8220;Luther&#8230; was not particularly fond of the Letter to the Hebrews&#8221;. The whole message of that Epistle is: If people are deserting your new church and going back to the old religion that existed centuries before you broke away from it, that proves that (a) your new church is wrong and (b) you need human priests to keep offering repeated sacrifices for your sins.</p>
<p>Not a good omen for the so-called &#8220;Reformation&#8221;.</p>
<p>I like your Rule #27. The <i>Spectator</i> (oddly, for a magazine that is largely written and edited by scions of recusant houses) went a bit funny a few years back, publishing repeated denunciations of [the] European Union conspiracy by one of those quasi-British-Israelist Tory Anglicans who can&#8217;t seem to tell the difference between the Thirty-Nine Articles and <i>The Thirty-Nine Steps</i>.</p>
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		<title>By: Julia</title>
		<link>http://amywelborn.wordpress.com/2008/03/06/do-you-remember-rule-27/#comment-4251</link>
		<dc:creator>Julia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:12:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amywelborn.wordpress.com/?p=662#comment-4251</guid>
		<description>And here&#039;s The Times&#039; goofy take on the story that the new seven deadly sins include mortal sins against the environment - the same source for the Telegraphs&#039; headline that if you don&#039;t recycle you are going to hell for sure.   

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article3517050.ece</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And here&#8217;s The Times&#8217; goofy take on the story that the new seven deadly sins include mortal sins against the environment &#8211; the same source for the Telegraphs&#8217; headline that if you don&#8217;t recycle you are going to hell for sure.   </p>
<p><a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article3517050.ece" rel="nofollow">http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article3517050.ece</a></p>
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		<title>By: Julia</title>
		<link>http://amywelborn.wordpress.com/2008/03/06/do-you-remember-rule-27/#comment-4250</link>
		<dc:creator>Julia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:01:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amywelborn.wordpress.com/?p=662#comment-4250</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s already Monday, but I had to share this if anybody is still reading this thread. 

Courtesy of Drudge

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2008/03/10/eavatican110.xml&amp;CMP=ILC-mostviewedbox

The UK&#039;s Telegraph says the Vatican is warning that using plastic bags will get you sent to hell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s already Monday, but I had to share this if anybody is still reading this thread. </p>
<p>Courtesy of Drudge</p>
<p><a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2008/03/10/eavatican110.xml&amp;CMP=ILC-mostviewedbox" rel="nofollow">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2008/03/10/eavatican110.xml&amp;CMP=ILC-mostviewedbox</a></p>
<p>The UK&#8217;s Telegraph says the Vatican is warning that using plastic bags will get you sent to hell.</p>
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		<title>By: Clare Krishan</title>
		<link>http://amywelborn.wordpress.com/2008/03/06/do-you-remember-rule-27/#comment-4219</link>
		<dc:creator>Clare Krishan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 18:26:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amywelborn.wordpress.com/?p=662#comment-4219</guid>
		<description>I was struck at that same part of the book, Amy, but not because I found my correctly formed Catholic conscience reaffirmed, but because I felt challenged to read and reread why my compression of one of my favorite passages was an incorrect &quot;Luthern-German-Catholic&quot; mental-conviction gnosis...

... and I was stunned, since I thought I&#039;d got past all that with JPII&#039;s phenomenological teachings on our teleology.

So go easy on the British journalist, many Catholics are just as confused, if not more so. And we&#039;re the vincibly ignorant - so escatalogically/soteriologically speaking we&#039;ll be judged more harshly as the &quot;irresponsible&quot; ones for not educating our own and helping the world get a better grasp on their invincible ignorance as regards justification by faith alone....

P.S. Am I only one that sees a Buddha-like Christ pointing  with his ordopotaka mudra at Nirvana enlightment over that Altar? Didn&#039;t Augustine say something already about Mani dancing his light-fantastic? Perhaps that&#039;s why the Nestorians lost it on their trek across the Steppe - the Buddhists had better iconographers - they just acculturized  all those 6th C AD cave murals with a little gnostic imagination (like Luther&#039;s &quot;mental conviction&quot;) and voila:

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/Central_Asian_Buddhist_Monks.jpeg

a saintly Tocharian Christogram greeting

byzantineevangelization.com/images/2006/fingers.jpg

 ( ICXC four letters of IeCus XriCtus in Greek, index finger is erect, thumb crosses to touch fourth digit. leaving second digit and pinky slightly relaxed and curved)    got muddied into a manichean mudra... ?   

P.P.S. The architects may have got their jollies with all that fancy boat-building-metaphorical-lumberjack technology but their ain&#039;t much light yet in that there Cathedral in Californa - didn&#039;t some Goth invent flying buttresses to let the light in through windows? Or go ask the Turks for the plans to that old piles of stones called the Hagia Sophia... its a real sensation in the best sense of that word, not sensationalist like this American saccharine confection.   

Sorry for the harsh tone, but as a scientist I resent it when we don&#039;t use science in the service of awe and wonder the way we could if we recognised the objective sense of &quot;elenchos&quot; as proof, and were not so easily satisfied with our own subjective opinions... so that our newer cathedrals look like some poor imitation of a Disney Wilderness Lodge 
www.themeparks.com/library/albums/wdw/wdwdining/normal_whispering-canyon-08.jpg

instead of a Threshold to Heaven</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was struck at that same part of the book, Amy, but not because I found my correctly formed Catholic conscience reaffirmed, but because I felt challenged to read and reread why my compression of one of my favorite passages was an incorrect &#8220;Luthern-German-Catholic&#8221; mental-conviction gnosis&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230; and I was stunned, since I thought I&#8217;d got past all that with JPII&#8217;s phenomenological teachings on our teleology.</p>
<p>So go easy on the British journalist, many Catholics are just as confused, if not more so. And we&#8217;re the vincibly ignorant &#8211; so escatalogically/soteriologically speaking we&#8217;ll be judged more harshly as the &#8220;irresponsible&#8221; ones for not educating our own and helping the world get a better grasp on their invincible ignorance as regards justification by faith alone&#8230;.</p>
<p>P.S. Am I only one that sees a Buddha-like Christ pointing  with his ordopotaka mudra at Nirvana enlightment over that Altar? Didn&#8217;t Augustine say something already about Mani dancing his light-fantastic? Perhaps that&#8217;s why the Nestorians lost it on their trek across the Steppe &#8211; the Buddhists had better iconographers &#8211; they just acculturized  all those 6th C AD cave murals with a little gnostic imagination (like Luther&#8217;s &#8220;mental conviction&#8221;) and voila:</p>
<p>upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/Central_Asian_Buddhist_Monks.jpeg</p>
<p>a saintly Tocharian Christogram greeting</p>
<p>byzantineevangelization.com/images/2006/fingers.jpg</p>
<p> ( ICXC four letters of IeCus XriCtus in Greek, index finger is erect, thumb crosses to touch fourth digit. leaving second digit and pinky slightly relaxed and curved)    got muddied into a manichean mudra&#8230; ?   </p>
<p>P.P.S. The architects may have got their jollies with all that fancy boat-building-metaphorical-lumberjack technology but their ain&#8217;t much light yet in that there Cathedral in Californa &#8211; didn&#8217;t some Goth invent flying buttresses to let the light in through windows? Or go ask the Turks for the plans to that old piles of stones called the Hagia Sophia&#8230; its a real sensation in the best sense of that word, not sensationalist like this American saccharine confection.   </p>
<p>Sorry for the harsh tone, but as a scientist I resent it when we don&#8217;t use science in the service of awe and wonder the way we could if we recognised the objective sense of &#8220;elenchos&#8221; as proof, and were not so easily satisfied with our own subjective opinions&#8230; so that our newer cathedrals look like some poor imitation of a Disney Wilderness Lodge<br />
<a href="http://www.themeparks.com/library/albums/wdw/wdwdining/normal_whispering-canyon-08.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://www.themeparks.com/library/albums/wdw/wdwdining/normal_whispering-canyon-08.jpg</a></p>
<p>instead of a Threshold to Heaven</p>
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		<title>By: Marcel LeJeune</title>
		<link>http://amywelborn.wordpress.com/2008/03/06/do-you-remember-rule-27/#comment-4216</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcel LeJeune</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 14:48:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amywelborn.wordpress.com/?p=662#comment-4216</guid>
		<description>I meant &quot;buy&quot; not &quot;by&quot; in the first sentence.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I meant &#8220;buy&#8221; not &#8220;by&#8221; in the first sentence.  <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Marcel LeJeune</title>
		<link>http://amywelborn.wordpress.com/2008/03/06/do-you-remember-rule-27/#comment-4215</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcel LeJeune</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 14:48:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amywelborn.wordpress.com/?p=662#comment-4215</guid>
		<description>So many people still by into the caricature that the media has created of the Pope, that they can&#039;t get beyond it.  The man is a brilliant theologian and won&#039;t let ignorance get in his way.

He is merely studying Luther, again, to try and take the good from his writings.  Luther did have a lot of good stuff in his writings.  Polemical, yes, but good theology, much of it.

On the other hand, many Catholics have made a caricature of Luther and if the Pope can correct some of our mistakes, then I think that is an admirable goal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So many people still by into the caricature that the media has created of the Pope, that they can&#8217;t get beyond it.  The man is a brilliant theologian and won&#8217;t let ignorance get in his way.</p>
<p>He is merely studying Luther, again, to try and take the good from his writings.  Luther did have a lot of good stuff in his writings.  Polemical, yes, but good theology, much of it.</p>
<p>On the other hand, many Catholics have made a caricature of Luther and if the Pope can correct some of our mistakes, then I think that is an admirable goal.</p>
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		<title>By: thomasgwyn</title>
		<link>http://amywelborn.wordpress.com/2008/03/06/do-you-remember-rule-27/#comment-4214</link>
		<dc:creator>thomasgwyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 14:43:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amywelborn.wordpress.com/?p=662#comment-4214</guid>
		<description>&quot;So: faith by hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;So: faith by hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: thomasgwyn</title>
		<link>http://amywelborn.wordpress.com/2008/03/06/do-you-remember-rule-27/#comment-4213</link>
		<dc:creator>thomasgwyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 14:41:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amywelborn.wordpress.com/?p=662#comment-4213</guid>
		<description>&quot;faith as co-believing with the whole Church&quot; ...yes! seems to me that discussion about the nature/definition of justification, while useful, often leaves assumed a definition of faith. And, it&#039;s &quot;faith&quot; that&#039;s the the real issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;faith as co-believing with the whole Church&#8221; &#8230;yes! seems to me that discussion about the nature/definition of justification, while useful, often leaves assumed a definition of faith. And, it&#8217;s &#8220;faith&#8221; that&#8217;s the the real issue.</p>
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