Just a few notes on the death of Legionary founder Marciel Maciel:
1. There is great mystery as to where Maciel was when he died. Various rumors have been passed around, but the LC says nothing more specific than in the United States. The NYTimes says he died in Houston.
2. The death notice on the official page says that on the date of his death, Maciel is “to heaven.” Although it also asks for prayers for the repose of his soul, the outright statement that he has gone to heaven upon his death is strikingly un-traditional. Perhaps it is a colloquialism?
3. I’m struck by the fact that at least up to this point, there is no telegram made public from the Holy Father sending condolences to the group for the death of their founder, an act that is otherwise standard practice.
A 2006 CNS story conveying the bulk of the statement restricting Maciel’s public ministry.
The group IS saying that he died in the U.S.: ” With the peace that always filled his soul, he departed for his eternal destiny on January 30 in the United States.”
http://www.marcialmaciel.com/eng/nfundador_carta.htm
I’m not a Spanish speaker, but here the Chilean Salesians use somewhat similar wording to what the Legion used in Spanish… “a la Patria celestial”.
Hmmm, whereas the website for the Legion has some bad theology (instant canonization, he’s in heaven now…oh, by the way, pray for his sould) this announcement has better theology, but just bad grammar: He departed for his eternal destiny in the United States?
I heard it was Naples, Florida, where he passed. And I found the “to heaven” presumptuous, but perhaps it is customary. I’d like to see how it was officially stated when JP2 or Mother Theresa passed on, for example.
Naples is mentioned here:
http://www.americanpapist.com/2008/01/legionaries-of-christ-founder-marcial.html
I like how they said “eternal destiny”. To me, it makes no assumptions.
Since he most likely is in desperate need of prayers right now, it’s sad that the LC won’t acknowledge he probably led a life of great sin. Is hell rejoicing because MM and the rest of the Legion had too much pride to admit he needed to repent?
No matter how many bloggers argue otherwise, no matter how many lawsuits the Legion files, Maciel might be in Hell right now.
The sad fact remains that the Legion has not comes to terms with the fact that Maciel was a sexual pedophile who committed sins and crimes, as determined by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, and approved by the very priest who is now our pope.
instant canonization, he’s in heaven now…oh, by the way, pray for his soul
Saying “to heaven” does not mean he has arrived. He might be delayed in purgatory for a time. If he is there he is indeed on his way to heaven and he does need our prayers. Excluding the possibility of hell is a judgment. That is not new. It is consistent with the opinions of Fr Maciel that have been coming from the Legionaires of Christ and Regium Christi.
“It is consistent with the opinions of Fr Maciel that have been coming from the Legionaires of Christ and Regnum Christi.”
RC members have claimed that Fr. Maciel never committed a moral sin.
So, yeah, I’d say it’s pretty consistent with the Legion’s tall tales about Nuestro Padre and his Blue Ox, Babe.
Well they say literally that he has moved on to his heavenly fatherland. The word fatherland in spanish does not have the same negative (nazi?) connotations that it does in english, and is best translated as heavenly kingdom.
It definitely excludes the possibility that he may be sent to hell, it may include purgatory if we believe that it is a part of heaven.
Initial reports say he died in Naples, Florida, more recent ones (confirmed by the Mexican Archdiocese) say he died in Houston Texas of natural causes.
Personally Houston Texas makes more sense to me as MM had reportedly attended doctors there throughout his life.
Such ambiguity is typical from the legion – perhaps this time for security reasons.
Milenio, mexican newspaper – online edition, tells us that Vatican Radio makes mention of his death and his life, including the accusations of pedophilia, his denial and the action taken by the pope being unable to charge maciel due to his age and health.
The L’Osservatore Roman (vatican newspaper) placed simple notice of his death in the obituary section, again according to the milenio.
Milenio also tells us that it has been confirmed by the Legionaries Anhuac University in Mexico City, that Maciel will be buried in his home town Cotija but the date and time of the burial will not be made public and the ceremony will be private.
This contrasts with the huge celebrations of his 50th priestly ordination in 1995 in the same place where hundreds of legionaries and RC members “invaded” the town to celebrate with him, I was one of them.
Members of his family have requested he be buried in cotija, where his mother is already buried in a large crypt for exclusive LC use. Maciel started the process of beatification of his mother. There is a sculpture and plaza dedicated to her there, above the LC crypt.
Legionary constitutions state that legionaries should be buried where they die, according to local custom.
It would be no wonder if an exception would be made in this case as indeed Maciel lived “exempt” from the constitutions that “God inspired him”.
In this way maciel will be returned to his home and to his family, something which the families of already deceased legionaries have been deprived.
I believe that this is fitting as it shows the duality of life which Marcial lived.
The sad fact remains that the Legion has not comes to terms with the fact that Maciel was a sexual pedophile who committed sins and crimes, as determined by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, and approved by the very priest who is now our pope.
The CDF did no such thing.
People, give it a rest. The man isn’t even cold in his grave, and already you’re all over him. What is it about accusations of sexual abuse that suddenly causes charity to be a vice and rash judgment to be a virtue?
It’s no wonder the Legionaries haven’t advertised where he died.
Honestly, sometimes I’m embarrassed to be a Catholic.
Would someone explain to me how it is, that a society that so many people despise, attracts so many young men to the priesthood? I live in Connecticut and an always getting solicitations from the LC. They routinely have 30 or more seminarians (or so they say), and are continually recruiting at the highschool level. Of those I have seen or read, they are quite intelligent and articulate.
We are have been blessed in this diocese to have enough diocesan seminarians to cover our needs but certainly nothing extra and the majority of them come to the priesthood later in life, in their 30s and some even later. They too are intelligent and articulate but much of that comes from prior education and career.
What is the draw? They aren’t around here helping in the parishes, what are they doing? I see Fr. Jonathan on FOX News, he has become their go to guy when the subject is religion. He is very nice looking, clearly intelligent and very well spoken. He seems very capable of expressing Orthodox and/or conservative views without denigrading anyone.
He makes a good impression but after reading all the negative press about the LC, I am always wondering about him as a priest and a person.
Are we to continually condemn all the priests in the order?
Bravo cma, well said. So typical of the “upstanding” Catholic types to sling mud instead of offer prayers. So pious of them.
Thanks for sharing the good news about good men. Yes, the Legionaires and its find young men are a shining beacon in the dark times we live in! Too bad the nay sayers want to focus on the darkness and are so gratuituously willing to condemn anyone they’ve see fit to condemn. How convenient to forget that all of us are undeservedly saved from condemnation through Christ’s redemptive love.
Tony, from Canada
The AP is now reporting that Maciel died in Houston, Texas, citing the LC order as their source:
http://www.americanpapist.com/2008/02/correction-lc-founder-maciel-died-in.html
Youre Kingdom Come!
I am an ECYD member. I am in third stage and I am
going into fourth later this summer. Fr. Maciel has
changed my life, with out him I dont know where I would
be. Even though I never got the chanceto meet him, I felt
so close to him, but now I am able to talk to him through
out my day and I know he will become my best friend.
I’ve only come across one Legionaire and he was awesome. As for Fr. Marciel who knows? St. Raphaela Marie was once accused of horrible things by former members of her order. Shortly before she died the truth came out. Who really knows?
cma,
Fr Jonathan was not orthodox about contraception when it would have meant disagreeing with Sean Hannity. And Fr Morris certainly denigrated Fr Euteneur (sp?) in the matter. But, yes, he’s very good-looking. That is a critical quality in the LC because they’re all about image. Their numbers are way down since the CDF came out with the May 2006 statement, though.
They recruit at the high school level because boys are more impressionable at that age. But, if there’s even a small chance that the abuse stories are true, should you risk your sons’ safety on a boarding minor seminary? Yikes.
FWIW, American Papist now says that the death occurred in Houston.
Karen and cma you make some good points. I hope the LC can see the way to make some small reforms and get rid of the stigma of secrecy and singlemindedness (e.g., do their schools all need identical mottos?). It has many good men and women involved in it, but changes are needed. The difference of opinion is about how much change is needed or can take place.
CMA the legion is well aware that they will be judged by their fruits.
This is why there has always been and continues to be a great amount of pressure to recruit and get more and more numbers into the legion, to give the appearance of bearing fruit.
Only one in every ten legionary that begins novitiate makes it to ordination, and further go on to leave the legion after ordination. The Legion is very aware of this and is happy that it can beef up its numbers – which are not true to begin with – with people that it knows will never make it to ordination.
As a legionary we were forbidden to talk about numbers, about the amount of members in our communities, equally we were forbidden to talk about members that had left, and definitely not count how many were leaving.
The legion willingly uses deception in its recruitment program:
-It will lie to the candidate to persuade them that they will be working in a particular field or mission that they want to. In my case I was told that the legion was a missionary order and was shown photos of mission territory. Less the ten percent of LC priests work in the missions.
-It will lie to the candidate telling them they will receive one of the best civilian educations in the world so that if they don’t have a vocation they will still have something to fall back on. The opposite of this is true as legionaries are accredited by LC centres only where undue merit and undue fail is granted according to the whims of the superior.
-I worked as assistant to a recruiting priest (we travelled c100,000km in the north of spain, one team out of ten recruitment teams) and the policy was do not give any information about life as a legionary, tell the candidate what they want to hear, keep the candidate happy, make him laugh, bring him to fun activites gain his trust etc but DONT give detail about LC daily life. In fact, many of the young men did not even know they were possible candidates, or that the LC five step recruitment strategy was being worked on them, even though the priest would have their names on his vocation database.
In this way, when a novice enters the Legion he does not have access to the constitutions and the other rule books that are to govern the rest of his life, and he has little previous knowledge of these commitments before entering.
This to me is deception.
Possible recruits will be invited to a BBQ or some other fun activity, but the intention of the Legionary organising is to use it as a means of recruitment, unknown to the candidate.
An LC priest befriended me as a young teenager and ate with me and my family, was welcome in my home and had a bed there. He kept in regular contact with me for three years until I entered the Novitiate after which the “friendship” ended coldly.
That priest was a LC recruiter and he abused my trust and used the “friendship” to get me into the Legion and to fulfil his quotas. I was just another name in his list, another box to tick for him. Once he had done his job, he moved onto the next batch of recruits.
The “friendship” and caring “attitude” was just a means to an end, it was insincere.
Karen LH,
Sometimes I’m embarrassed to be a Cactholic too. Statements like these about the CDF investigation, from the story above
….
Vatican sources said the wording of the statement and its call to penance signaled it had found there was substance to the accusations.
…
make me wonder. If the CDF found there was substance to the allegations, why not say so in way that everyone understands? This insistence by the church that is the repository of truth to obfuscate by giving messages in code is confounding.
“But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.” John 3:21
Several posters have said that Maciel was accused of “pedophilia.” As far as I know, this is not true. All the accusations I am aware of concern homosexual abuse–of adolescent males or adult males.
Because of constant repetition, the words “priest” and “pedophile” have become linked. The word “pedophilia” has been stretched beyond all meaning, to include cases involving abuse of young men in their 20s. In all the revelations of the past several years, only four or five actual pedophiles have been exposed.
Paul,
hear hear. I wish they would make a plain statement rather than a vague one ( I know several people say it clearly means such-and-such, but I don’t see that myself.)
I will say, the Legionary priests that I have met have been intelligent and have really had good things to say. I have gained a lot from their retreats, etc. (and Jeannette, some of them have been really goofy-looking — not recruited for their looks at all.) ;) Maybe I have just had good luck.
However, I still would not say I am not completely impressed with their recruitment tactics.
Fr Joe,
The boys Maciel abused were as young as 10.
Patrick Kinsale: “I’d like to see how it was officially stated when JP2 or Mother Theresa passed on, for example.”
Didn’t then Cardinal Ratzinger say, at Pope JP2′s funeral, that JP2 was at the window of his Father’s house, looking down and blessing us? That’s not an “official” statement (only canonization would be) but it was a generally held sentiment voiced by a very important cleric at a vry public occasion.
aaron: what’s wrong with what you call “recruiting”? Weren’t the Apostles and disciples “recruiting”? Don’t missionaries “recruit”? Shouldn’t our Bishops be “recruiting”? Would that there were more “recruiting”.
Jeannette: “No matter how many bloggers argue otherwise, no matter how many lawsuits the Legion files, Maciel might be in Hell right now.” Jeannette, whenever you get on this subject, I feel like I’m in hell.
The Legion appears to be successful because, it uses cult-tactics. Thus just as (in varying degrees) Scientologists are successful (and like them the LC is SUING its critics), Moonies, Hari-Krishnas, perhaps Mormons, radical Islam, etc., are arguably “successful” – if success is growth in numbers, dollars, and influence.
There is only the illusion of discernment in the LC. Indoctrination and brainwashing are better descriptions. Usually its very subtle, other times very heavy-handed… ironically, according to the personalized ‘needs’ of the member!
The members are subject to total control of the order. Rarely see family, can’t leave a center or visit with outsiders without permission, or read a book, or deviate from a very demanding schedule. And recruits and outsiders have no idea how intense it is in there.
The purpose of the formation is to convince the member everything the Legion says, does, teaches, or demands of its members is “from God and approved by the Church.” Once a member ‘buys in’ they are hooked. Living the lifestyle becomes distorted magical thinking, along the lines of ’step on a crack, break your mother’s back” or in LC terms, ’souls will go to hell’.
With orders to always appear happy and never reveal any interior feelings, doubts or questions to family or friends, you get seemingly happy, highly motivated ‘apostles for the kingdom’. It is a sad farce, a caricature of genuine religious life… but it ‘works’ – it fools people and reproduces, because it was designed to do so by Maciel.
What is the charism of the Legion? To co-opt every apostolate in the Church so as to appear fruitful? They seem to me to be the ecclesial equivalent of Wal-mart.
If the Legion/RC movement hopes to be a positive movement in the Church and an agent of the Lord’s will, they need to live in the truth. I hope that the people here who admire the Legion and hope to see it bear fruit listen carefully to what I and others write, even to some of the people whose expressions are overly harsh. I write as someone who has had some involvement in Legion-sponsored activities, but has kept things arms-length.
The evidence of the truth of the bulk of the accusations against Legionary founder, the suspended and recently deceased Fr. Marcial Maciel is overwhelming. The number of accusers, their credibility as shown by their stations in life and the corroboration that they did indeed know and have contact with Maciel all point to this. The severity of the sanctions placed against Maciel, suspending his public ministry as a priest in a very public way, would not have been made without the Holy Father being reasonably sure that there was substance to at least some of the accusations. Even Maciel’s former defenders, such as Fr. Richard John Neuhaus, acknowledge that he must have done “something very seriously wrong.” Even before the sanctions were placed on the founder, I felt that it took something approaching willful self-deception to fail to see the credibility of the victims, who were so cruelly defamed by the Legion for so many years.
The facts are important for faithful Catholic families making decisions about their children being involved in schools or activities promoted by the Legion. I decided to allow my 3 boys to be involved in Conquest boys club, after staying out for at least a year, only after realizing that the local club was primarily run by the local dads and that only one of the dads was in Regnum Christi, the associated lay movement, and that the fruits of the formation the club offered and the companionship with boys from solid Catholic families was worth it. However, had I stayed in that community, I would have had to face hard decisions about whether to allow my boys to go on retreats where I suspected that heavy-handed recruitment techniques would be applied. I refused to participate in activities promoting the expansion of the club, and would explain my ambivalence to people who asked. When I moved to another state, I made no effort to start up a new club, though some dads in my old home encouraged me to do so.
I don’t fear that kids drawn into LC/RC will be abused in they way that Maciel’s victims were. However, I do fear that the atmosphere of secrecy and control described by so many ex-Legionaries could lead to experiences that would be emotionally and spiritually damaging. It will be hard for me or anyone to see inside to LC to see how much change has taken place in the LC’s tactics, but one thing I would say is: so long as LC/RC holds up “the Founder” or “Nuestro Padre” as an example to be emulated, it is a sign that they are not Living in the Truth, and that faithful Catholic parents should approach any Legion-associated activity with great caution.
May God have mercy on the soul of Marcial Maciel, and may the Holy Spirit lead all people involved in the Legion of Christ and Regnum Christi to a more truly fruitful apostolate.
No, the LC’s aren’t Wal-Mart. They’re a Ponzi scheme masquerading as a religious order.
“There is only the illusion of discernment in the LC. Indoctrination and brainwashing are better descriptions. Usually its very subtle, other times very heavy-handed… ironically, according to the personalized ‘needs’ of the member!
The members are subject to total control of the order. Rarely see family, can’t leave a center or visit with outsiders without permission, or read a book, or deviate from a very demanding schedule. And recruits and outsiders have no idea how intense it is in there.
The purpose of the formation is to convince the member everything the Legion says, does, teaches, or demands of its members is “from God and approved by the Church.” Once a member ‘buys in’ they are hooked. Living the lifestyle becomes distorted magical thinking, along the lines of ’step on a crack, break your mother’s back” or in LC terms, ’souls will go to hell’.
With orders to always appear happy and never reveal any interior feelings, doubts or questions to family or friends, you get seemingly happy, highly motivated ‘apostles for the kingdom’. ”
I’m highly suspicious of the Legion and what seems to be a lot of humbug surrounding it and its Founder, but, in fairness, how does this differ from MANY pre-Vatican II religious orders (such as the Jesuits) or diocesan seminary experiences? The horror stories I hear about the Legion sound very much like certain kinds of outmoded formation techniques that started being abandoned after the 60s.
I’ve just done a google search on Latin American obituaries and found 28,600 uses of the words “partida a la patria celestial” for this year alone.
I must say, legions (sic) of people are being “canonized” !
Another common expression in Latin American obits is (loose translation) is “now in the arms of the Lord Jesus”.
Who’s to account for culture, folks?
As an exlegionary, I have to agree that the Legion’s way of recruiting is deceptive at best. Their apostolate is to form a group of lay Catholics very similar to Opus Dei. They are secretive, ultraconservative and admit no opposing opinion or even questioning.
When you join, you’re told whatever you want to hear. Sure, they say, you’ll receive a first rate education. You’ll be a leader in the Church. In fact, you’ve been called from all eternity (unless WE tell you otherwise!). There is two years of Novitiate during which you follow a very demanding schedule with absolutely no free time. You are allowed two visits the first year and three the second. No phone calls. Your letters, both sent and received, are all read. If your superior thinks that you shouldn’t be told something you won’t even know that the person wrote to you! You will leave all your friends and family behind.
If you leave, you’re dumped, forgotten and treated like a parriah. Some have committed suicide. Others have lost their faith. Some generous souls join Regain to try to prevent altruistic young people from getting involved with the Legion or Regnum Christi. Regain was also formed to try to aid those who have left the Legion reenter normal life.
For Karen LH, and others who believe Maciel innocent…
Yes, the CDF did find him guilty. It decided not to prosecute due to some of the factors outlined in the 2006 CNS report below. Read this and ponder: why remove the head of the largest growing order of priests from office if he was innocent of the charges?
By Cindy Wooden
Catholic News Service
VATICAN CITY (CNS) — In a decision approved by Pope Benedict XVI, the Vatican has said the founder of the Legionaries of Christ, accused of sexually abusing minors, should not exercise his priestly ministry publicly.
The Vatican also said May 19 it would not begin a canonical process against the founder, 86-year-old Father Marcial Maciel Degollado, because of his advanced age and poor health.
The Vatican statement did not get into details about the allegations against Father Maciel, but Vatican sources said the wording of the statement and its call to penance signaled it had found there was substance to the accusations.
(snip–As Amy likes to say)
…And this from Vatican Rome coorespondent John Allen from his report filed in 2006 (No matter what one thinks of NCR, his reporting and fact finding are top notch and he has emerged as a credible reporter in his own right)
“One cardinal who serves on the congregation told NCR that, in his view, the material left little doubt as to the validity of the charges, though he said he was less clear how Maciel understood what he had done. Under canon law, intent and state of mind are sometimes taken into consideration in meting out punishment.
After the case was reopened in 2004, the congregation’s promoter of justice, Maltese Msgr. Charles Scicluna, began to collect additional testimony. Sources told NCR that the eventual number of accusers who came forward against Maciel was “more than 20, but less than 100.”"
(snip–back to me for final comments)
I’ll leave you with this fact: Just a few weeks ago the Vatican told the Legion and RC to quit taking their fourth secret vow, that forbade members to speak ill of each other or to speak ill of a superior. There isn’t a religious order in the world with that type of extra vow! (a promise for RC consecrated).
Guess who created the rule? Maciel, of course. And for a serial sexual abuser it was the near-perfect shield to hide his actions over a 20-year period. He further hid his crimes and sins by “forgiving “the boys during confession and telling them that what he did with them wasn’t a sin–which is what the CDF was able to base its ruling on.
xLC you say that Legionaries cant read a book without permission… we couldn’t even read a CEREAL box without permission.
Can you imagine the frustration of eating breakfast in silence with a cereal box on the table right in front of you and you know YOU MUST NOT READ IT….?
Talk about sit in the corner and try not to think about a pink elephant…
It was like a chinese torture.
“aaron: what’s wrong with what you call “recruiting”? Weren’t the Apostles and disciples “recruiting”? Don’t missionaries “recruit”? Shouldn’t our Bishops be “recruiting”? Would that there were more “recruiting”.”
Big difference between calling someone to conversion and working them over, manipulating them, and using them. That’s Aaron’s point, and you know it.